EPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 2752 posts, RR: 16 Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 66329 times:
Quoting Emirates2005 (Reply 1): Now THAT is one flight am really eager to see. Hope sooner than later for that magnificent bird.
As am I, although the B787 first flight was more important for Boeing. But to see another four holer take to the skies certainly catches a little bit extra of my attention. I hope to have this news confirmed soon.
NA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 8388 posts, RR: 11 Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 65407 times:
On the 10th already? Next sunday. Very nice to hear. Lets hope it´ll be confirmed. I´m very eager to see the grand dame of the sky fly and I hope Boeing is broadcasting it like the 787.
Let´s wish for a bit of sunshine that day!
Jayeshrulz From India, joined Apr 2007, 908 posts, RR: 4 Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 62040 times:
Quoting Kappel (Reply 9): Or as the Americans put it... 01-10-10 Wink
OH yes.
Idk actually when is the FF of the Queen of the Skies.But i will be surprised why i try them and more airlines order them.
i hope the production run is long for this airline.Hope i see a twin deck 747 too.Maybe if fat A380 has a market so why not my lovely Boeing?
757GB From Uruguay, joined Feb 2009, 421 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 61705 times:
Ok, now you all got me looking forward to another first flight!
I hope things run smoothly. Whatever the date, it's going to be great to see one of the most majestic aircraft ever built (can't forget Concorde) soar to the skies again.
I loved seeing the 787 fly. The 747 is in a class all by itself. Really looking forward to this one.
NA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 8388 posts, RR: 11 Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 61077 times:
Quoting CCA (Reply 13): So what about #2 when will we see it?
Very soon. Several 748Fs are in various stages of completion. If reports are correct it will be in Cargolux colours - or better said, it will be all grey!
LHUSA From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 543 posts, RR: 3 Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 60433 times:
Any word on when the 748i will begin production (if it hasn't already) and have first flight? I'm sure it's all over the boards on here, but just thought I'd ask. Thanks!!
It'll be wicked seeing this magnificent bird take to the skies! Can't wait! And it'll be even better seeing the passenger version with its stretched UD
F9mechanic From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 62 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 57946 times:
Quoting NA (Reply 14): If reports are correct it will be in Cargolux colours - or better said, it will be all grey!
# 2 is due out tomorrow on 2nd shift. That A/C will go to NCA, we've been told that it will be in full house colors. #1 isn't going to fly until the 22nd, but will likely be pushed back. 1423, 1424 and 1425 are going to Cargolux and will be painted in full livery.
RobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3734 posts, RR: 16 Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 56170 times:
Quoting RobK (Reply 6): Source? Boeing's own system showed Jan 21 as of last week.
I didn't have the file to hand when I wrote that but I do now. It's actually showing for Jan 22 not 21. Of course as is typical with first flight scheds, there is a high likelihood that they will change as we draw closer to the date.
VC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1862 posts, RR: 9 Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 52042 times:
Is there any past evidence that once an airline actually sees an aircraft that didn't get a lot of attention during the pitch mode, start taking out their check books once they see her fly?
In other words is anyone expecting more orders of the 747-800i once she flys?
FlyPBA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 379 posts, RR: 0 Reply 26, posted (2 years 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 53321 times:
I asked the Seattle PI's aviation reporter to check with Boeing ... he says that it is still scheduled for the 21st of January ... and definitely NOT the 10th
2707200X From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 5271 posts, RR: 1 Reply 28, posted (2 years 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 50533 times:
If thats true thats blearily 6 days from now, that would be like the taxi test should be held tomorrow. The new 747 when ever it taxis and makes its first flight will be spectacular to see and watch.
"And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by." John Masefield Sea-Fever
BlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1471 posts, RR: 5 Reply 29, posted (2 years 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 50545 times:
Quoting VC10er (Reply 23): Is there any past evidence that once an airline actually sees an aircraft that didn't get a lot of attention during the pitch mode, start taking out their check books once they see her fly?
Yes - and it is quite recent one: the 777-300ER. The sales were sluggish (although it did have about a handful of launch customers) until the real aircraft performance data gathered during the flight testing and initial airline service beat the Boeing estimates and hit the wires. The rest is history...
Tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 10474 posts, RR: 70 Reply 30, posted (2 years 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 50252 times:
Quoting Airutopia (Reply 10): Also, Boeing will not 'First flight' a new aircraft of this magnitude on a Sunday as they know the Media needs to attend.
They won't delay because of media scheduling...how annoyed would you be, as a customer, if they they did that? Besides, the media works Sundays.
Quoting LHUSA (Reply 15): Any word on when the 748i will begin production (if it hasn't already)
If we're leaving the world of commercial passenger jets, you might as well invoke the 8-holers (the B-52 and the "Caspian Seamonster").
Quoting VC10er (Reply 23): Is there any past evidence that once an airline actually sees an aircraft that didn't get a lot of attention during the pitch mode, start taking out their check books once they see her fly?
707.
Quoting VC10er (Reply 23): In other words is anyone expecting more orders of the 747-800i once she flys?
There will be zero orders for the 747-800i. There's no such plane. Yes, I'm being annoyingly pedantic, but it's a 747-8, not a 747-800.
SupraZachAir From Norway, joined Feb 2004, 623 posts, RR: 1 Reply 31, posted (2 years 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 49321 times:
Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 30): Quoting Airutopia (Reply 10):
Also, Boeing will not 'First flight' a new aircraft of this magnitude on a Sunday as they know the Media needs to attend.
They won't delay because of media scheduling...how annoyed would you be, as a customer, if they they did that? Besides, the media works Sundays.
Agreed. This whole thing about Boeing giving a crap about the day of the week due to media reasons is an a.net fallacy. The 731, 73G, 741, 742, 753, and 777 all had first flights on Sunday.
Norcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1156 posts, RR: 15 Reply 32, posted (2 years 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 48987 times:
Quoting Kappel (Reply 7): Not to mention the new "longest aircraft in the world" stealing the crown from the a346 in that respect. Can't wait either!!
Quoting Aero145 (Reply 22):
Funny when people forget to add ”passenger” to that. It happens a lot!
CX flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6052 posts, RR: 57 Reply 34, posted (2 years 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 48686 times:
When Cargolux got their last 747-400ERF, it was painted in a slight different scheme, they said in preparation for a new scheme to be introduced with the 747-8Fs. Does anyone know if this is still true?
F9mechanic From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 62 posts, RR: 0 Reply 37, posted (2 years 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 47694 times:
Quoting FlyPBA (Reply 26): I asked the Seattle PI's aviation reporter to check with Boeing ... he says that it is still scheduled for the 21st of January ... and definitely NOT the 10th
That's news to me that it will fly on the 21st, and I've been working on it since FBJ. All I can say is that I can't wait till she flies, and that the second one will make it out tomorrow afternoon.
Parapente From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1193 posts, RR: 9 Reply 40, posted (2 years 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 47499 times:
Did the Boeing tour with my son 2 weeks ago whilst on a skiing holiday.The 747 building had 3 748's that were being very actively worked on.The one next to the door looked very complete (and that was 2 weeks ago).I did not see the finished one on the Boeing site.
They are magnificent planes to see.As stated they are very long - which is accentuated by the fact they have the "short" upper deck. The wings are very aesthetic with the new extensions.
CCA From Hong Kong, joined Oct 2002, 611 posts, RR: 9 Reply 45, posted (2 years 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 45467 times:
They continue so I should have used the correct LN the first 747-8 is LN 1420 the second 747-8F should be out of the hangar 6+ hours from now. (LN 1421)
[Edited 2010-01-06 08:42:03]
C152 G115 TB10 CAP10 Be76 C500 A330 A340 A346 B747-200F B747-400 -400F -400BCF -400ERF Next the 747-8F
F9mechanic From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 62 posts, RR: 0 Reply 46, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 45313 times:
Quoting CCA (Reply 45): They continue so I should have used the correct LN the first 747-8 is LN 1420 the second 747-8F should be out of the hangar 6+ hours from now. (LN 1421)
It made its way to stall 208 last night, really awesome to see two side by side.
EA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 11 Reply 47, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 45451 times:
I think the 748 looks much more balanced with the much larger GEnx-2B engines than the older GE CF6/PW4000/RR RB211s.
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 20): Not to mention the new "longest aircraft in the world" stealing the crown from the a346 in that respect.
If you ignore the An-225 which is almost 30 ft. (9m) longer than the 346.
The 748 is the largest, longest, and heaviest production aircraft in North America, including both commercial and military. Only the Spruce Goose has a larger wingspan, but was over 500,000lbs lighter, and much much shorter.
We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
",,,,,,,,,,,,,,the first 747-8F, has yet to reach the systems gauntlet stage suggests that first flight is still weeks away. Given the status of current work it seems Boeing is not likely to open up the first flight window until around the end of the month rather than mid-January as was speculated late last year. Officially all Boeing is saying is that “first flight will occur early in the year in the first quarter.”
LTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 54 Reply 59, posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 41993 times:
Quoting CCA (Reply 53): http://paineairport.com/kpae2687.htm
Notice the new flaps on the -8, which are 777 style (double slotted inboard, and single slotted outboard flaps). No more triple slotted flaps for this plane.
Lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 7889 posts, RR: 98 Reply 65, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 40204 times:
Quoting Revelation (Reply 52): Click on image or link for full sized image:
Those engines are very prominent! Quite a difference vs. the CF6/PW4000/RB211 744.
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 56):
Not quite, The Convair B-36 wingspan was over 5 feet greater than the 748, 230 ft. vs. 224 ft.7 in.
You know you are on a.net when that reference pops up.
Adipasqu From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 232 posts, RR: 0 Reply 68, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 38620 times:
Quoting Petera380 (Reply 67): BTW,does anyone know why it called the 747-8 and not the 747-5?
The same reason as the first model of the 787, 350 and 380 - the "8" is a lucky number in Asian cultures and it doesn't hurt sales to put as many of them in the model number as possible.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 22836 posts, RR: 77 Reply 69, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 38552 times:
Quoting Petera380 (Reply 67): BTW,does anyone know why it called the 747-8 and not the 747-5?
There are a number of possible reasons:
Boeing actually launched the 747-500X and 747-600X and they also floated a 747-700X, so "8" is the next number available.
The nominal pax+bags range of the 747-8 is 8000nm, so the 8 can reflect that.
Boeing could be changing their naming schema so "8" is the new baseline instead of "200" and "9" replaces "300" for the first stretch.
"8" is a lucky number in Asia so it might have been chosen to try and influence sales in Asia. Then again, "4" is an unlucky number that did not hurt sales of the 747, much less the 747-400.
LTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 54 Reply 71, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 38059 times:
I did not know that they would transfer some of the 747-8's flightesting to PMD (where the L-1011 used to be built a long time ago). I knew about flight testing of the 747-8 taking place at MWH, but not about the PMD part.
Tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 10474 posts, RR: 70 Reply 73, posted (2 years 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 37786 times:
Quoting LTU932 (Reply 71): I did not know that they would transfer some of the 747-8's flightesting to PMD (where the L-1011 used to be built a long time ago).
It wasn't always planned that way. On the original schedule, the 787 should have been gone before the 747-8 got into testing, in which case they'd just test at BFI like always.
The announcement about PMD came publically around the end of last year, I think.
PlunaCRJ From Uruguay, joined Nov 2007, 538 posts, RR: 0 Reply 74, posted (2 years 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 37679 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 69): Quoting Petera380 (Reply 67):
BTW,does anyone know why it called the 747-8 and not the 747-5?
There are a number of possible reasons:
Boeing actually launched the 747-500X and 747-600X and they also floated a 747-700X, so "8" is the next number available.
The nominal pax+bags range of the 747-8 is 8000nm, so the 8 can reflect that.
Boeing could be changing their naming schema so "8" is the new baseline instead of "200" and "9" replaces "300" for the first stretch.
"8" is a lucky number in Asia so it might have been chosen to try and influence sales in Asia. Then again, "4" is an unlucky number that did not hurt sales of the 747, much less the 747-400.
Well, I always thought that, in addition to what you said, the "8" was in direct allusion to Boeing´s new star project, the 787, from which the new 747 has got a lot of things, like engines and interior.
Regards,
"The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom"- Isaac Asimo
Sorry, I'm too lazy to look throught everything does anyone know what colors the second aircraft will be painted in? I think the article said it went into the paint hanger on the 9th.
Dan23 From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 63 posts, RR: 0 Reply 78, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 36028 times:
The second 747-8F is now out of the paint hangar and is painted identically to RC501. Interestingly she is also painted with the same registration as #1, N747EX.
Frigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 986 posts, RR: 0 Reply 79, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 35555 times:
Quoting Dan23 (Reply 78): The second 747-8F is now out of the paint hangar and is painted identically to RC501. Interestingly she is also painted with the same registration as #1, N747EX.
That has to be a slip of the paintbrush, right? I'm a total layman on this, but it cannot be that there are 2 airplanes with the same reg in the air?
NA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 8388 posts, RR: 11 Reply 80, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 35242 times:
Quoting Dan23 (Reply 78): The second 747-8F is now out of the paint hangar and is painted identically to RC501. Interestingly she is also painted with the same registration as #1, N747EX.
Whats sense should that make? Should be illegal anway if its not a fake.
Revelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 7219 posts, RR: 13 Reply 83, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 34334 times:
Quoting LTU932 (Reply 71): I did not know that they would transfer some of the 747-8's flightesting to PMD (where the L-1011 used to be built a long time ago).
What facilities does Boeing have at PMD?
I saw in an article that Boeing has put all flight testing (military and civil) under one executive, and the PMD facility was part of the military division.
Some googling seemed to imply the facility may have come along when Boeing bought out Rockwell's aerospace business (and in turn Rockwell had already bought North American Aviation), as the facility seems to have been used for Space Shuttle work. It also seems to be mentioned as being used to build Boeing's failed entry into the JSF competition. Given the Rockwell and NAA ties, I imagine this is the same plant used for the Valkyrie and the B-1?
I saw in an article that Boeing has put all flight testing (military and civil) under one executive, and the PMD facility was part of the military division.
Perhaps they're using one of the old civilian facilities used by Lockheed during the L-1011 programme?
Tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 10474 posts, RR: 70 Reply 85, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 33887 times:
Quoting Frigatebird (Reply 79): I'm a total layman on this, but it cannot be that there are 2 airplanes with the same reg in the air?
Not in the air at the same time...that would be a problem. But there's no inherent problem with having two painted that way, since neither has its certificate yet (as far as I know...you'd think there's be a PR push over that).
Quoting NA (Reply 80): Whats sense should that make? Should be illegal anway if its not a fake.
Just having them painted duplicate, right now, shouldn't be illegal because I'm pretty sure neither one has its certificate issued.
CX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4365 posts, RR: 6 Reply 88, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 32506 times:
I was asked today what the main differences between the 747-400 and 747-8 are. I know that almost 20+ years of technology/design updates has occurred but overall, how does the cockpit differ in computer processors, screen lay out etc? Can we get a side by side comparison of the 744 and 748? Also, how does one of the last 747-400ERFs out the door compare technology wise with the first 747-8F?
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
EA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 11 Reply 89, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 32295 times:
Quoting CX747 (Reply 88): how does the cockpit differ in computer processors, screen lay out etc?
I believe while the 748 shares much with the 744 in terms of commonality, the 748 also shares a cockpit with the 787, as well as many of the systems. The 748, to me, is basically a mix of the 744/777/787. I looked for pics of the 748 cockpit but couldn't find anything.
We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
DfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 674 posts, RR: 54 Reply 91, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 32214 times:
Quoting EA772LR (Reply 89): I believe while the 748 shares much with the 744 in terms of commonality, the 748 also shares a cockpit with the 787, as well as many of the systems.
It's not a 787 cockpit. Largely just some modernizations over the existing 744 cockpit:
- New electronic flight bag
- New flight management computer
- Vertical situation display
Quoting CX747 (Reply 88): Can we get a side by side comparison of the 744 and 748? Also, how does one of the last 747-400ERFs out the door compare technology wise with the first 747-8F?
Lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 7889 posts, RR: 98 Reply 92, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 31902 times:
Quoting F9mechanic (Reply 81): I'ts not a fake, we were all laughing when we noticed it, it's going to be repainted.
That is funny! Oops!
Quoting F9mechanic (Reply 87): It has the final gauntlet test to do, which should start towards the end of the week. I would say week to two weeks till she flies.
Most likely.
Quoting CX747 (Reply 88): I was asked today what the main differences between the 747-400 and 747-8 are
The cockpit is updated.
The main differences is the stretch
New engines (GEnX-2)
Reprofiled wing with new flaps (required to meet LHR noise requirements and to improve fuel burn).
LVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 51 Reply 93, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days ago) and read 31596 times:
Jan 21st would mark exactly 40 years since the first Pan Am 747 commercial service (to LHR), correct? Perhaps Boeing is/was aiming at that date for that reason?
Zeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 6549 posts, RR: 71 Reply 94, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 31316 times:
Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 92): "The 747-8F is expected to achieve a 16% lower ton-mile operating cost than the 747-400F and offer a slightly greater range."
29 Tonnes more freight. That is impressive.
If it sounds too good to be true, it normally is.
The max structural payload on the GE powered 744F is 122,945 kg, max structural payload on the 748F is 133,901 kg.
Zeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 6549 posts, RR: 71 Reply 96, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 31651 times:
Quoting EA772LR (Reply 89):
I believe while the 748 shares much with the 744 in terms of commonality, the 748 also shares a cockpit with the 787, as well as many of the systems. The 748, to me, is basically a mix of the 744/777/787. I looked for pics of the 748 cockpit but couldn't find anything.
The 748F is not a 787 cockpit, it is still a relatively "dumb" cockpit, like the 744. The upgrade is more like the 737OG to 737NG, looks different but as far as I am aware little has changed behind the scene (the systems/avionics databus).
Switch positions/indications in the cockpit do not necessarily mean they are the same as the systems, the 748 does not have a AIMS (Aircraft Information Management System) / CCS ( Common Core System ) like cabinet like on the 777/787 that makes the systems smart. The is mainly due to the avionics databuses the 777 uses the ARINC 629 / 787 ARINC 664 that allow the systems to be more integrated into the aircraft.
As far as I am aware, the 747-8 will use the same Rockwell Collins DU-7001 LCD screens that are on the 747-400ERs, and that some operators replaced the older CRT screens with on the older 744s (like VS).
Lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 7889 posts, RR: 98 Reply 97, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 31057 times:
Quoting Zeke (Reply 94): The difference is about 11t, not 29t.
EA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 11 Reply 100, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 29798 times:
Quoting AK (Reply 99): Why is the "Hump" shorter than the -400's? Does it have do do with the extra length of the 8i?
Just used to seeing the long hump.
The length of the hump on the 748F is the same as the hump on the 741/742 and 742F/744F. It may appear shorter because of the additional length of the 748. The hump on the 748I is longer than the the hump on any previous 747 model.
We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
Dlednicer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 424 posts, RR: 8 Reply 102, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 29428 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW DATABASE EDITOR
Quoting 747classic (Reply 101): Unable to see if the left 747-8F (RC521) has the same registration as the right 747-8F (RC501) on this picture ? Or is it the other way around.
Dlednicer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 424 posts, RR: 8 Reply 104, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day ago) and read 29237 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW DATABASE EDITOR
Quoting Mattcawby (Reply 103): Why didn't you get there at 10 AM, that one is totally backlight and you had to drive right past the No Trespassing sign to get to that spot.
I was there at 10:30, but couldn't figure out the shot (too many light poles) and went to a meeting instead. When I was done with the meeting I went back and discovered how to get the shot. I was on the public side of the fence, behind the last row of new hangars, right up against the gate.
FlyNWA727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 305 posts, RR: 0 Reply 106, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day ago) and read 29048 times:
Good to finally see up-close pics of this bird. Can't wait for the passenger version.
Anyways, can someone please point out to me the advantage(s) of single/double-slotted flaps over the original triple-slotted flaps used on the 747? I know that noise is reduced but what are the other advantages, if any?
First flight aboard a Northwest B727-251ADV out of BWI Thurgood Marshall Airport, my hometown airport.
Drerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 4083 posts, RR: 9 Reply 108, posted (2 years 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 28823 times:
Quoting FlyNWA727 (Reply 106): Good to finally see up-close pics of this bird. Can't wait for the passenger version.
Anyways, can someone please point out to me the advantage(s) of single/double-slotted flaps over the original triple-slotted flaps used on the 747? I know that noise is reduced but what are the other advantages, if any?
Fewer moving parts = less things to break if you will.
Tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 10474 posts, RR: 70 Reply 110, posted (2 years 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 28364 times:
Quoting FlyNWA727 (Reply 106): Anyways, can someone please point out to me the advantage(s) of single/double-slotted flaps over the original triple-slotted flaps used on the 747? I know that noise is reduced but what are the other advantages, if any?
Simpler to build and maintain, lighter, cheaper. As in all things aviation, you want the simplest setup that will do the job. Until they really got the aerodynamic modelling down, if you wanted really ridiculous amounts of lift you went triple slotted; with aerodynamic improvements, they can now meet the performance targets with single & double slotted flaps.
LTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 54 Reply 111, posted (2 years 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 28167 times:
Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 110): Simpler to build and maintain, lighter, cheaper. As in all things aviation, you want the simplest setup that will do the job. Until they really got the aerodynamic modelling down, if you wanted really ridiculous amounts of lift you went triple slotted; with aerodynamic improvements, they can now meet the performance targets with single & double slotted flaps.
Besides, back in the 60's triple-slotted flaps seemed to become the norm at Boeing, since they were used on the 727 and 737. Only the 707 was the exception because it had only single-slotted flaps. I can't say anything about the technical reasons, but that's just the impression I got, as other contemporary aircraft (e.g. DC-10 and L-1011) seemed to prefer single-slotted flaps over triple-slotted ones (no idea about the A300 though).
RobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3734 posts, RR: 16 Reply 112, posted (2 years 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 28469 times:
Quoting Dlednicer (Reply 107): Thanks! I couldn't figure this out from the ln/cn
I thought you were supposed to be the a.net database editor ?!
The msn for your photo is 36136 and the type is a 747-8KZF. Reg will eventually be JA11KZ but it will receive an N-reg for flight testing soon (not N747EX which has been painted on in error).
Tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 10474 posts, RR: 70 Reply 114, posted (2 years 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 27960 times:
Quoting LTU932 (Reply 111): Besides, back in the 60's triple-slotted flaps seemed to become the norm at Boeing, since they were used on the 727 and 737. Only the 707 was the exception because it had only single-slotted flaps.
707 used very long runways and only needed single-slotted. The 727 had a requirement to get out of La Guardia, which wasn't going to happen with a high weight 707 or DC-8, hence the ridiculous high-lift system. I think the 737 inherited much of its wing from the 727, although I'm not positive about that.
Speedbird2263 From Jamaica, joined Jul 2006, 420 posts, RR: 1 Reply 115, posted (2 years 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 27846 times:
Is it just me or are those flaps incredible close to the tarmac at full extension? I know on the previous models the extension was great but in the new pics of the -8 they seem to have even less ground clearance as compared to the engineer standing under the fuselage. What say you?
YXwatcherMKE From United States of America, joined May 2007, 742 posts, RR: 2 Reply 116, posted (2 years 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 27735 times:
Ok, I have spent the last hour reviewing the thread to find out if the date and time has been set for first flight of the 748F and have not fond it. Has it been announced yet?
Also when will we see the 748-i version, and why are the airlines playing keep away on this wonderful bird? I really don't understand why they are not lining up to order them.
I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 17620 posts, RR: 17 Reply 117, posted (2 years 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 27956 times:
Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 114): Quoting LTU932 (Reply 111):
Besides, back in the 60's triple-slotted flaps seemed to become the norm at Boeing, since they were used on the 727 and 737. Only the 707 was the exception because it had only single-slotted flaps.
707 used very long runways and only needed single-slotted. The 727 had a requirement to get out of La Guardia, which wasn't going to happen with a high weight 707 or DC-8, hence the ridiculous high-lift system.
The 747SP also has much simpler single-slotted flaps since that's all it needed, compared to the complex triple-slotted flaps of other 747s. The SP also lacks the large "canoe" fairings that house the flap mechanisms on other 747s.
LTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 54 Reply 118, posted (2 years 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 27567 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 117): The 747SP also has much simpler single-slotted flaps since that's all it needed, compared to the complex triple-slotted flaps of other 747s. The SP also lacks the large "canoe" fairings that house the flap mechanisms on other 747s.
747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 1359 posts, RR: 5 Reply 119, posted (2 years 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 27393 times:
Quoting 747classic (Reply 101): Finally, the first 747-8(F) picture on the A-net data base.
Quoting Mattcawby (Reply 105): You have a picture of the second -8, the first one is on the left.
So, if i am correct : The picture is of the second 747-8F. According the data available to me this is serial number 36136, L/N 1421, RC521, 747-8KZF, the first to be delivered to NCA.
Japanese registration will probably be JA11KZ. The test registration is wrongly applied as N747EX. On the left hand side partly visible is the real "N747EX", the first 747-8F produced for Cargolux.
Is this correct?
Very weird, that there are no pictures at all of the first 747-8F on the A-net data base.
Zeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 6549 posts, RR: 71 Reply 120, posted (2 years 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 27271 times:
Quoting EA772LR (Reply 98):
Zeke is referring to the 744ERF not the 744F. So you guys are both correct really.
No, the 744ERF with CF6-80C2B5-F engines has a max payload of around 112,763 kg, it has a lower MZFW than the 744F (around 251,744 kg). The 744F with CF6-80C2B1 engines has a max payload of around 122,945 kg with MZFW of 288,031 kg.
The 747-8F has a max payload of around 133,901 kg, with MZFW of around 325,226 kg. The OEW of the 747-8F is about 26t heavier than the 744F.
NA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 8388 posts, RR: 11 Reply 122, posted (2 years 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 27062 times:
Quoting RobK (Reply 112): The msn for your photo is 36136 and the type is a 747-8KZF. Reg will eventually be JA11KZ but it will receive an N-reg for flight testing soon (not N747EX which has been painted on in error)
I´m still irritated by this mistake. What was the guy thinking who applied the registration number? Nothing? Was he a complete ignorant not to know about the first 748F? In any case he must be someone totally disinterested in his job.
I´d really like to know how this could happen. Its nothing serious, but its a sign of ignorance, incompetence and neglect, something I´m negatively surprised about. This is a in-the-face mistake, how many mistakes can we expect among the more hidden details in the aicraft then?
RobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3734 posts, RR: 16 Reply 124, posted (2 years 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 26658 times:
Quoting 747classic (Reply 119): So, if i am correct : The picture is of the second 747-8F. According the data available to me this is serial number 36136, L/N 1421, RC521, 747-8KZF, the first to be delivered to NCA.
Japanese registration will probably be JA11KZ. The test registration is wrongly applied as N747EX. On the left hand side partly visible is the real "N747EX", the first 747-8F produced for Cargolux.
Is this correct?
RobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3734 posts, RR: 16 Reply 125, posted (2 years 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 26643 times:
Quoting YXwatcherMKE (Reply 116): Ok, I have spent the last hour reviewing the thread to find out if the date and time has been set for first flight of the 748F and have not fond it. Has it been announced yet?
NA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 8388 posts, RR: 11 Reply 126, posted (2 years 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 27141 times:
Quoting Cc2314 (Reply 123): na mistakes do happen,its not the end of the world and im sure it will not take very much time to correct the error.
Sure, and its not a grave mistake, but such in-the-face mistake is very strange. I guess the registration number is a sticker, or one sticker per letter, and it takes some time to apply it. Maybe 15 minutes, during which the guy who did it was surely braindead. Obviously he didnt look at what he was doing. Better they transfer this man to a different department, otherwise the next aircarft he might work on might carry a "Boring" sticker!
Pellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1510 posts, RR: 9 Reply 127, posted (2 years 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 27067 times:
Quoting 747classic (Reply 101): Finally, the first 747-8(F) picture on the A-net data base.
Beautiful curvy flaps on this thing.
Quoting 413x3 (Reply 109): I wonder how differently she flies. Must be a ferrari in the skies now, instead of the -400 Cadillac
Like a S-class or a Maybach.
Quoting NA (Reply 126): Sure, and its not a grave mistake, but such in-the-face mistake is very strange. I guess the registration number is a sticker, or one sticker per letter, and it takes some time to apply it.
Are registrations always stickers? Or only temporary registrations?
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 22836 posts, RR: 77 Reply 129, posted (2 years 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 26847 times:
Maybe the plan is to change the registration of RC521 from N747EX to something else and using N747EX on RC521?
I mean it's not like the plane has to leave the paint hangar with a registration number assigned. I've seen customer planes on the PAE flight line with no registration - it's added before the first flight. So it should not have been a case of "we have no registration number yet, but we have to slap something on, so re-use N747EX for the time being".
Tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 10474 posts, RR: 70 Reply 133, posted (2 years 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 25238 times:
Quoting NA (Reply 122): What was the guy thinking who applied the registration number?
That he was doing what he was told. I can pretty much guarantee that the guy painting the reg on the aircraft is not the same guy assigning which aircraft gets which reg number.
Quoting NA (Reply 122): Was he a complete ignorant not to know about the first 748F?
How many people, without prompting, do you think can name the registry of any particular Boeing aircraft? Of course he knew there was a first 748F...but if somebody says "go paint N747EX" on this plane in the paint hanger, is he going to walk to the flightline to see if that's already been painted on another plane?
Quoting NA (Reply 122): In any case he must be someone totally disinterested in his job.
Or very focussed on doing what the plan says to do, which is exactly what you want in a manufacturing environment.
Quoting NA (Reply 122): I´d really like to know how this could happen.
Simple...pulled the wrong piece of paper.
Quoting NA (Reply 122): Its nothing serious, but its a sign of ignorance, incompetence and neglect, something I´m negatively surprised about.
A simple mistake isn't really incompetence, and certainly not ignorance, incompetence, or neglect on behalf of the poor guy actually painting the aircraft.
Quoting NA (Reply 126): I guess the registration number is a sticker, or one sticker per letter, and it takes some time to apply it. Maybe 15 minutes, during which the guy who did it was surely braindead
They don't do this sitting right next to the other aircraft...during paint the aircraft is in a dedicated hanger where you can't see anything else, the other 747-8 was painted several weeks ago (likely by a different crew, or at least a different guy doing the reg), and it's very likely the guy doing the painting wasn't braindead at all and was doing exactly what he was supposed to do.
Boeing also reports that RC521 - the second 747-8F - will be re-registered after a painting error that assigned the same registration ( N747EX) to both the first and second test aircraft.
NYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 4632 posts, RR: 51 Reply 141, posted (2 years 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 22776 times:
Guy NOrris is reporting that if gauntlet testing goes well this weekend then taxi tests should occur towards the end of next week and pending the issuance of Experimental Type Certification from the FAA, first flight should occur around January 31st or Feb. 1st.
DefAeroSales From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 49 posts, RR: 0 Reply 142, posted (2 years 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 22540 times:
I'd like to see them fly it late in the day on Tuesday, Feb. 2nd so it could be seen live at the Singapore Air Show on Wednesday morning. (Ok, maybe not feasible...)
I've got lunch scheduled at the Boeing air show chalet that day and will look forward to seeing some video of the new ship taking to the sky. (Maybe they'll have some 747-8 first flight marketing trinkets?)
Dlednicer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 424 posts, RR: 8 Reply 143, posted (2 years 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 22181 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW DATABASE EDITOR
As of 1:30pm PST today, the registration on RC521 has been painted over and the aircraft has no visible registration. RC501 carries the registration N747EX and was doing engine starts this morning.
Dlednicer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 424 posts, RR: 8 Reply 148, posted (2 years 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 21311 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW DATABASE EDITOR
This is why there are no pictures of RC501 in the database yet - it is parked in such a way that it would be extremely difficult to get clear pictures of it without going on to Boeing property. This picture was taken yesterday:
747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 1359 posts, RR: 5 Reply 149, posted (2 years 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 20850 times:
Quoting Dlednicer (Reply 148): This is why there are no pictures of RC501 in the database yet - it is parked in such a way that it would be extremely difficult to get clear pictures of it without going on to Boeing property.
Thanks for all the efforts you made to take a clear picture of RC501.
Hopefully there are better opportunities for taking clear pictures, without cluttering, during the taxi tests next week.
FCA767 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2006, 1648 posts, RR: 0 Reply 150, posted (2 years 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 20826 times:
Here's me reading this now...I didn't even know about this...and all I've been seeing is that dreamlifter thing if that massive hump, thinking that is what people were going on about months ago...
Obviously now I know what you are going on about...but I thought you are talking about Jan 10th next year...has it happened then?
Dynamicsguy From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 630 posts, RR: 2 Reply 151, posted (2 years 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 19601 times:
The final gauntlet test was apparently completed on Saturday. This was reported on Boeing News Now - the internal Boeing news site. I can't provide a link because it's not available outside Boeing (sorry mods).
United787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2031 posts, RR: 1 Reply 152, posted (2 years 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 19008 times:
Quoting FCA767 (Reply 150): Here's me reading this now...I didn't even know about this...and all I've been seeing is that dreamlifter thing if that massive hump, thinking that is what people were going on about months ago...
Obviously now I know what you are going on about...but I thought you are talking about Jan 10th next year...has it happened then?
Acabgd From Serbia, joined Jul 2005, 620 posts, RR: 0 Reply 153, posted (2 years 2 days ago) and read 18151 times:
Quoting United787 (Reply 152): Quoting FCA767 (Reply 150):
Here's me reading this now...I didn't even know about this...and all I've been seeing is that dreamlifter thing if that massive hump, thinking that is what people were going on about months ago...
Trigged From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 492 posts, RR: 0 Reply 154, posted (2 years 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 17330 times:
Quoting Acabgd (Reply 153):
Quoting United787 (Reply 152):
Quoting FCA767 (Reply 150):
Here's me reading this now...I didn't even know about this...and all I've been seeing is that dreamlifter thing if that massive hump, thinking that is what people were going on about months ago...
747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 1359 posts, RR: 5 Reply 155, posted (2 years 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 17027 times:
A video shot of the gauntlet tests of RC501 with the first actual movements of the elevators and the sound of the GE GEnx-2B engines and APU clearly audible.
Also pictures of the actual paint job to correct the wrongly applied registration on the second 747-8F, RC521.
747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 1359 posts, RR: 5 Reply 156, posted (1 year 12 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 16145 times:
In the run-up to the first flight of the 747-8, Boeing is conducting a further series of primary flight control system checks as well as a final weighing of RC501 – the first flight aircraft – before commencing taxi testing.
The operating empty weight (with standard cargo system interior) is expected to be 421,000 lb.
Quoting Acabgd (Reply 153): Heh... I was going the same... WTF?
I remember people talking about the new 747...and then I saw pictures of the Dreamlifter 747...thinking...why does the new 747 have that big hump in the middle...
Now I've only realised that the thing I was looking at isn't the 747-800...but I though dreamlifter was the name for it...
And why wasn't the plane broadcasted in the UK? I really wanted to see it too...
747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 1359 posts, RR: 5 Reply 159, posted (1 year 12 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 15698 times:
Quoting GBan (Reply 157): Quoting 747classic (Reply 156):
as well as a final weighing of RC501
How is that done?
The aircraft is towed on several platforms (under each landing gear truck one platform) equipped with strain gauges. In this case we need 5 platforms, one for the nose gear, two for both body gears and two for both wing gears.The bending of each platform caused by the corresponding landing gear truck is a measurement of the actual weight on that platform.
All 5 platforms are electronically interconnected and calculate the total weight and the CG of the aircraft.
Acabgd From Serbia, joined Jul 2005, 620 posts, RR: 0 Reply 161, posted (1 year 12 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 15138 times:
Quoting FCA767 (Reply 158): and then I saw pictures of the Dreamlifter 747...thinking...why does the new 747 have that big hump in the middle...
Now I've only realised that the thing I was looking at isn't the 747-800..
Okay, now it's clear what you meant
Quoting FCA767 (Reply 158): And why wasn't the plane broadcasted in the UK? I really wanted to see it too
You mean why they didn't broadcast the first flight? It didn't take off yet. The first flight is still to come (but I still doubt it will be broadcast live in the UK, maybe it will be shown on the news though).
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 20247 posts, RR: 62 Reply 162, posted (1 year 12 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 14620 times:
Quoting Acabgd (Reply 161): You mean why they didn't broadcast the first flight? It didn't take off yet. The first flight is still to come (but I still doubt it will be broadcast live in the UK, maybe it will be shown on the news though).
I think he's asking why the Dreamlifter FF wasn't publicized in the UK? Or maybe I'm confused now too?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
Starrion From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 999 posts, RR: 2 Reply 163, posted (1 year 12 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 13854 times:
Tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 10474 posts, RR: 70 Reply 164, posted (1 year 12 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 13684 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 162): I think he's asking why the Dreamlifter FF wasn't publicized in the UK?
Dreamlifter FF didn't get much publicity anywhere in the Western world; the Dreamlifter was built in Taiwan at a non-Boeing facility and didn't come to Seattle until about a week after its first flight.
YXwatcherMKE From United States of America, joined May 2007, 742 posts, RR: 2 Reply 165, posted (1 year 12 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 13468 times:
Any word yet as to the date and time of the 747-8F's first flight? Maybe Tuesday?
I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
No. The livery on the 747-8F's is called "Boeing Light". As far as I can tell, the full Boeing livery is still what ZA001 is wearing.
Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 167): Or have they run out of money to paint it the old way?
They just told the world on Tuesday that they had positive cash flow of $5.4 billion last year...running out of money does not appear to be the problem.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 22836 posts, RR: 77 Reply 170, posted (1 year 12 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11816 times:
I expect the full house livery will be on the first 747-8 VIP.
Mham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2412 posts, RR: 2 Reply 171, posted (1 year 12 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 11679 times:
Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 169): More like "We are so behind schedule we can't afford to spare a week to paint it properly"! stirthepot
Of what import would the time and money be? And it is painted "properly".
Good news from Flight Blogger. Thanks CCA I was not aware that RC522 was factory complete. It seems Boeing has been working pretty swiftly as of late with the 748F program. Can't wait to see her in the air. On to the 787, it's good to see that program continuing to make great progress.
We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
CCA From Hong Kong, joined Oct 2002, 611 posts, RR: 9 Reply 175, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 8837 times:
Another update, this one from all things 787.
Quote: WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 3, 2010
747-8F First Flight News
Sources are telling me that taxi tests for RC501 (LN1420) are on plan to start this weekend with first flight for sometime middle to late next week. Time will tell if this schedule holds.
Quote: Boeing plans to fly the first 747-8 Freighter as soon as Monday, the company announced Wednesday.
"With high-speed taxi testing scheduled in the coming days, we're on track for first flight soon thereafter," spokesman Jim Proulx said in an e-mail. "The window for first flight is planned to open at 10 a.m. on Monday, Feb. 8 at Paine Field in Everett, Wash. This date is dependent upon successful completion of taxi testing."
Boeing plans to host a live webcast, showing the takeoff and landing, at 747-8firstflight.com, which will be available starting 24 hours before the flight.
With video!
C152 G115 TB10 CAP10 Be76 C500 A330 A340 A346 B747-200F B747-400 -400F -400BCF -400ERF Next the 747-8F
"IATA has reported that freight traffic is improving once more with a near ten percent rise in November 2009. Cargo traffic is usually the first indicator that the market is coming out of a downturn. During a downturn conversions are usually delayed which can easily lead to a shortage of capacity when the market sees an improvement. However, with the arrival of the B747-8F as well as dozens of -400Fs in storage, any improvement in -400F values will be slow."
Still, it'll be nice to see her airborne...
It's better to ask a stupid question during training, rather than make a REALLY stupid mistake later on!
WestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2068 posts, RR: 8 Reply 180, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6868 times:
In addition to the 747-100 first flight (1969) and the 747-400 entry into service(1989), which Randy mentions in his blog entry from a year ago, there was also the 737-700 first flight (1997), all on Feb 9th.
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
Moderators From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 424 posts, RR: 0 Reply 181, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 6347 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Please continue this discussion the the official thread at this link:
Sponsor Message: 
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I hope to have this news confirmed soon.
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what is your source?
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That has to be a slip of the paintbrush, right? I'm a total layman on this, but it cannot be that there are 2 airplanes with the same reg in the air?
That is impressive. 
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I was not aware that RC522 was factory complete. It seems Boeing has been working pretty swiftly as of late with the 748F program. Can't wait to see her in the air. On to the 787, it's good to see that program continuing to make great progress.
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