Fyano773 From Mexico, joined Mar 2004, 747 posts, RR: 1 Posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 18111 times:
Airfax updated its availabilities list with these novelties:
B777-200ER Aircraft available for sale or lease. RR Trent 884 engines. Manf. 1998. MTOW=650Klb. Contact information
B777-200ER Aircraft available for sale or lease. GE90-90B engines. Manf. 1997. Contact information
B777-200ER Aircraft available for sale or lease. RR Trent 892B engines. Manf. 1998. Contact information
B777-200ER Aircraft available for immediate ACMI lease in all-economy or two-class pax configuration. PW4090 engines. Manf. 1997. MTOW=290.4t. Contact information
B777-300 Two aircraft available for sale or lease May13. GE90-115B engines. Manf. 2007. New listing/additional aircraft Contact information
I bet these 77W will find a new home easily as this type is in high demand and slots for new aircrafts are locked by other carriers, e. g. EK, SQ, etc.
After a quick search in the production list, probably they come from AI or 9W.
Newark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1175 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 18016 times:
9W leased some frames to TK and TG. I read that the TK examples are being returned as that airline gets its own. Maybe that has something to do with it?
HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4414 posts, RR: 76 Reply 2, posted (11 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 17859 times:
Of the 4 aircraft that 9W leased to TK, 2 went to TG and the other 2 went back to 9W, whereas 3 additional frames went from 9W to TG. The 2 aircraft offered for lease from May13 may well be the initial 2 frames that went to TG and will come off their lease as TG starts taking delivery of its own B77Ws later this year.
gemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5219 posts, RR: 6 Reply 5, posted (11 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 17351 times:
Quoting Fyano773 (Thread starter): B777-300 Two aircraft available for sale or lease May13. GE90-115B engines. Manf. 2007. New listing/additional aircraft Contact information
Are you sure these are B77Ws? Listing say B777-300 which are B773s, which are not in great demand, B77Ws would be listed as B777-300ER. Does the engine sub type answer the question?
ANM604 From Canada, joined Feb 2012, 137 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 16475 times:
Interesting, I could see AC making a play for these birds, provided they are in good shape. That would eliminate some of the need for leasing 77LR's from AI, and these would be a better a/c for them anyways. They have 5 on the order books with Boeing, but these deliveries are still sometime away, and AC needs planes now. In any event, I don't expect them to remain on the market for long, unless they are asking an outrageous amount for them. Should be interesting to watch this play out.
B738FlyUIA From Switzerland, joined Dec 2009, 473 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 16449 times:
Quoting ANM604 (Reply 12): Interesting, I could see AC making a play for these birds,...
AC was my first thought also and not only for the 77E, or even the 77W. Had also UN on my mind as they have the 77E's from exUA, exSQ. But I doubt they would need a 77W right now.
TR will follow; ZRH-DME SVO-HKT, HKT-SIN, SIN-KUL, KUL-HKT, HKT-SVO & DME-ZRH on LX, UN and AirAsia
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 14835 times:
Quoting nethkt (Reply 17):
But inside, it's really worn out, I think pax aboused the interior.
That's true, the interiors are very ratty considering that the aircraft are only 5 years old, but the aircraft would probably be reconfigured in the case of a sale or long-term lease anyway.
Quoting na (Reply 16):
I wouldnt be so sure. AI has been trying to lease out 777s for quite a long time already. Even 77Ws two years ago. Nobody wanted them.
The government has recently put into effect some new policies in reaction to the 777 leasing problem where AI is much more flexible - it won't be a long protracted ordeal anymore to lease or buy from them, so carriers won't get tired of waiting like they did last time.
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PlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6191 posts, RR: 79 Reply 19, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 14832 times:
Quoting na (Reply 16): I wouldnt be so sure. AI has been trying to lease out 777s for quite a long time already. Even 77Ws two years ago. Nobody wanted them.
That doesn't mean anything as long as we don't know more details. Probably AI's conditions aren't attractive to anyone - it's AI, so I wouldn't be surprised about anything.
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 14729 times:
Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 19):
That doesn't mean anything as long as we don't know more details. Probably AI's conditions aren't attractive to anyone - it's AI, so I wouldn't be surprised about anything.
The reason is because AI had such a drawn out process to get the lease approved that every interested carrier found another lessor.
That process has since been improved...
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Pacific From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2000, 1033 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 14625 times:
The 777-300ER comes with the GE90-115B engines, the 115 denoting 115,000lbs of thrust. Only the 777-300ER and specially uprated 777-200LR for hot and high use this engine.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10695 posts, RR: 100 Reply 24, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9355 times:
Quoting gemuser (Reply 5): Are you sure these are B77Ws?
The engines give it away.
Quoting poLot (Reply 7): Not only that, but also no -300s with GE-90s.
All 777-300 with GE-90s are 77W. I think GE did ok there.
gemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5219 posts, RR: 6 Reply 28, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5832 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 24): All 777-300 with GE-90s are 77W. I think GE did ok there.
Just to get it straight in my head. B777-200s could have GE90 engines, B777-300s can not & B77Ws all have GE90s? So all B777-300s had P&W engines? or did some have RR also?
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21495 posts, RR: 24 Reply 29, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5726 times:
Quoting gemuser (Reply 28): So all B777-300s had P&W engines? or did some have RR also?
Most were RR. According to Boeing orders/deliveries data, of the 60 777-300s (non-ER) built, 17 were PW (those ordered by JL/NH/KE) and the remaining 43 were RR.
gemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5219 posts, RR: 6 Reply 30, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5667 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 29): Most were RR. According to Boeing orders/deliveries data, of the 60 777-300s (non-ER) built, 17 were PW (those ordered by JL/NH/KE) and the remaining 43 were RR.
poLot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 1501 posts, RR: 0 Reply 31, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5651 times:
Quoting gemuser (Reply 28): Just to get it straight in my head. B777-200s could have GE90 engines, B777-300s can not & B77Ws all have GE90s? So all B777-300s had P&W engines? or did some have RR also?
All three engines were/are available on the 777-200, -200ER, and -300. It just so happens that no -300 customer selected the GEs, they were all RR or PW customers. GE has exclusivity on the -200LR, -300ER, and -200F versions.
As we all expected. I wonder who AI will turn to next, as not too many carriers would be interested in acquiring the 77LR's. I expected AC to be their best shot at getting rid of them, not sure who else would even be interested.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10695 posts, RR: 100 Reply 33, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4405 times:
Which 77Ws are these? I haven't heard confirmation on whom is selling.
Quoting ANM604 (Reply 32): I wonder who AI will turn to next, as not too many carriers would be interested in acquiring the 77LR's. I expected AC to be their best shot at getting rid of them, not sure who else would even be interested.
It is a tough sell to all but a few airlines. How is DL's cash flow? Might they take them?
I personally think AI could profitably use the 77Ls to SYD and MEL, but only if they work on having excellent connections to Europe.
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 34, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4384 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 33): I personally think AI could profitably use the 77Ls to SYD and MEL, but only if they work on having excellent connections to Europe.
I doubt it - the CASM of 77Ls aren't good, and O&D demand is fairly low yielding (like almost every other market from India). The connections to Europe are there for AI (LHR, FRA), but the 787 is a far better aircraft than the 777 for this job...
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HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4414 posts, RR: 76 Reply 35, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4118 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 33): Which 77Ws are these? I haven't heard confirmation on whom is selling.
Everybody seems to zoom in on AI's aircraft, but I for one believe that the aircraft offered for lease are 2 of 5 9W frames currently with TG. As TG will be taking delivery of its own 77Ws as well as its first A388s later this year, these aircraft will come off lease and there are no signs so far that 9W plans to reincorporate them into its fleet.
LJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4149 posts, RR: 1 Reply 36, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3927 times:
Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 35):
Everybody seems to zoom in on AI's aircraft, but I for one believe that the aircraft offered for lease are 2 of 5 9W frames currently with TG. As TG will be taking delivery of its own 77Ws as well as its first A388s later this year, these aircraft will come off lease and there are no signs so far that 9W plans to reincorporate them into its fleet.
Didn't 9W had problems placing the 77Ws before due to the wooden first class (and thus increased weight? I recall it wasn't easy to place these aircraft initially.
na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 9614 posts, RR: 10 Reply 38, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3791 times:
Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 35): Everybody seems to zoom in on AI's aircraft, but I for one believe that the aircraft offered for lease are 2 of 5 9W frames currently with TG. As TG will be taking delivery of its own 77Ws as well as its first A388s later this year, these aircraft will come off lease and there are no signs so far that 9W plans to reincorporate them into its fleet.
Thinking over it, Jet Aw indeed seems more likely than AI. If Im not mistaken, AI makes better use of their 77Ws than of the 77L. They are keener to lease out the latter, while 9W clearly has too many 77Ws in its inventory, and Thai will soon be returning the leased ones to 9W when the own frames are delivered. But who knows, maybe its a totally different source nobody has thought about yet!
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10695 posts, RR: 100 Reply 39, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3551 times:
Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 35): Everybody seems to zoom in on AI's aircraft, but I for one believe that the aircraft offered for lease are 2 of 5 9W frames currently with TG.
I concur, it still would be nice to confirm.
Quoting LJ (Reply 36): Didn't 9W had problems placing the 77Ws before due to the wooden first class (and thus increased weight? I recall it wasn't easy to place these aircraft initially.
I believe that was for a lease. If the aircraft are sold, I would expect a new cabin. Reading a.net over the years, it has sunk in that only a few airlines do first class well enough to offer it. IMHO, 9W should get out of that segment. I never understood why every airline has to try to compete versus the longhaul business jet sector (which is what first class really competes against). Some airlines can do it (e.g., SQ, BA, QF, LH, and arguably EK), most lose money on first.
Quoting na (Reply 38): AI makes better use of their 77Ws than of the 77L.
But if AI is unable to sell 77Ls, might they have to part with 77Ws? While not the ideal solution, it is an option... So while I think 9W is the most likely source, I wouldn't rule out AI. I'm also not 100% certain these have to come from an Indian airline... Hence why I'm asking as to the source of these 77W.
na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 9614 posts, RR: 10 Reply 40, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3512 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 39): I'm also not 100% certain these have to come from an Indian airline... Hence why I'm asking as to the source of these 77W.
How is JAL doing? With many 787 joining the fleet, do they still need all their 777s? They had cancelled their last 77W order.
DTWPurserBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 540 posts, RR: 2 Reply 41, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3495 times:
ha763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3492 posts, RR: 6 Reply 42, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2963 times:
Quoting na (Reply 40): How is JAL doing? With many 787 joining the fleet, do they still need all their 777s? They had cancelled their last 77W order.
JAL has no plans on replacing the 77W yet, so they are not going anywhere. The 787-8s will be used to open routes (BOS, HEL, SAN) and move some 772ERs and 763ERs to other routes (DME, DEL, SIN, PEK). This will allow for the retirement of older non-ER 763s. The 787-9 will likely be used to start the retirement of the 772s.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11712 posts, RR: 52 Reply 43, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2597 times:
Quoting gemuser (Reply 5): Are you sure these are B77Ws? Listing say B777-300 which are B773s, which are not in great demand, B77Ws would be listed as B777-300ER. Does the engine sub type answer the question?
Yes, the B-773 could be ordered with PW-4098, RR Trent-892, or GE-90-92B/-94B engines.
Quoting clickhappy (Reply 6): Don't think there were any straight -300's by 2007.
The last B-773 was delivered in 2006.
Quoting poLot (Reply 7): Not only that, but also no -300s with GE-90s.
Not true, there were two GE-90s offered o the B-773, the GE-90-92B or the GE-90-94B.
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 10): Only 77Ws (out of the 773 and 77W) have GE90-115Bs.
The GE-90-115B is an option on both the B-77L and the B-77F. The 'standard' engine on the "L" or "F" models is the GE-90-110B1 engine. The -110B1 and -115B engines are identical (hardware), and the only difference is the software, which can be upgraded from the -110B1 to the -115B engine.
The GE-90-110B1/-115B engines have the biggest fan diameter of any turbofan engine in the world, at 128" (3,251 mm), all other versions of the GE-90 engines have a smaller fan section at 123" (3,124 mm).
Revelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 10481 posts, RR: 20 Reply 45, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2401 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 39): Reading a.net over the years, it has sunk in that only a few airlines do first class well enough to offer it. IMHO, 9W should get out of that segment. I never understood why every airline has to try to compete versus the longhaul business jet sector (which is what first class really competes against). Some airlines can do it (e.g., SQ, BA, QF, LH, and arguably EK), most lose money on first.
And reading a.net over the years I've learned AI is being run for prestige and patronage, so AI won't be leaving the segment. It's interesting that many feel it is AI who is seeing to lease out the 77Ws. I guess that there is eventually some limit to how much money AI is allowed to bleed?
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 43): Quoting poLot (Reply 7):
Not only that, but also no -300s with GE-90s.
Not true, there were two GE-90s offered o the B-773, the GE-90-92B or the GE-90-94B.
Yes they were offered, no, no one took them on the 777-300-not-ER.
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 46, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2279 times:
Quoting Revelation (Reply 45):
And reading a.net over the years I've learned AI is being run for prestige and patronage, so AI won't be leaving the segment. It's interesting that many feel it is AI who is seeing to lease out the 77Ws. I guess that there is eventually some limit to how much money AI is allowed to bleed?
Now that the 787s are ready, AI has much less use for the 77Ws. So leasing/selling them is a better move than reducing fleet utilization further...
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